Hand-selected, original logos for sale
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Forum Tough day at the office


ADMIN

ajleroux
2019-07-29

Out of about 330 logos reviewed in the last 24 hours, we had to decline 240.

If you're new to LogoGround, welcome! Please see:
https://www.logoground.com/discuss.php?topic=1271

If you have lots of declined logos, look through the guidelines here:
https://www.logoground.com/get-logos-approved.php

LogoGround is not about getting as many logos onto the site as possible. Spend more time per logo. Show the world what you can do when you set out to make a brilliant logo.



DESIGNER
misma
2019-07-30

Daaamn, doing this everydays :/



DESIGNER
nouroumousse
2019-07-30

That is the difference between you and the other selling services, ( in a positive way :D )



DESIGNER
Dmitriy Dzendo
2019-07-30

Andre, I understand you. That's why you need to enter the exam for beginners. By the results, it will be immediately clear who is worthy of being in our team.
After all, those newcomers who receive refusals are trying to upload their logos again and again, thereby loading you with vain work. Many do not understand that LG is for professional designers and this is not a platform for learning.
Today, get a refusal, and tomorrow they will learn how to design logos like a pro. It does not happen.



DESIGNER
Piars Studio
2019-07-30

Wow great Andre :)



DESIGNER
ava_nauval
2019-07-30

One of the things that annoyed me when reviewing the logo was when logos uploaded by designers were almost similar to each other. Technically they are different. But the theme of colors choosing and repetitive shapes make decisions harder.



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2019-07-30

Well I can only say to keep up the good work.

And for those uploading I would suggest to try to get the polisher badge. It's a badge with 10 consecutive approved logos not interrupted by a declined logo.

You'll notice once you put a goal on achieving that badge, your uploaded logos will become much more better because you'll try to be as careful as possible so as to not get them declined.



DESIGNER
Furqontino
2019-07-30
Edited 2019-07-31 by Furqontino

@ajleroux,
we can't decide a new designers as learners or not just by reviewing their revised logo that has been declined before with a minor revision and still not good enough

in this case, a learner will try to find out what's wrong with their declined logo then try with a big step ...
meanwhile, bad beginners will probably only rotate the declined logo then upload it again and hope that the admin will "accidentally fell in love" with their new revision and agreed ... (this is weird)

I have a suggestion,
what if ... for each declined logos, the designer must upload their revisions with the same slot (if they want to revise it, otherwise they can delete it)
in this case... if a logo with the same slot declined more than 3 times, and the designer did not make a "correct" revision from previous submission... then, we can judge, they are not learners.
if it happens many times, from the same designer perhaps it doesn't matter if LG banned them.




ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-07-30

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

We don't mind hundreds of reviews each day. It is actually fun to see a bunch of new logos every day and it is exciting to see LogoGround grow. I just feel bad for the designers who have tons of declined logos and the point of my post was to let them know about the help resources we have on the site. Many declined logos could be approved if the designer just read the rules!

I have thought about some kind of entrance exam, but it would not make a significant difference to our work load. The majority of the inexperienced designers upload a few logos and then stop when their logos are rejected. Just today I received an email from an angry designer who told me I could take LG and stick it up my you-know-what. Says his logos are accepted everywhere else, but rejected here. He uploaded 9 logos, then he gave up. That is more or less normal. So I don't think an entrance exam will make a big difference because there we would also look at several of the designer's logos before deciding. Not worth the additional complexity, in my opinion, especially with our community review already working great and making our job much easier.

And we have top designers here on LG who were novices when they started uploading a few years ago. It is extremely satisfying to see them improve and become high-caliber logo designers who earn a living off their logo sales. Not many people have the endurance to work through that learning curve, but if they do and if they want to call LG home then I want to keep the door open for them.



DESIGNER
ava_nauval
2019-07-31
Edited 2019-07-31 by ava_nauval

@ajleroux

If only LG made a member acceptance selection through the recommendation from a senior designer or based on its level (eg minimal gold). LG will be the second version of dribbble :D. But I did not propose it. Just thinking of it.



DESIGNER
gror
2019-07-31

Hello,

How about being a limit of 10 logos/week. In this way designers will upload only the best logos. And I think is a decent limit, no one can create more than a good logo/day.



DESIGNER
Design Star
2019-07-31

Hi @gror,
I highly disagree with your thoughts, here should not be any limitations of uploading logo.

If a good designer upload 10 good logos in 2-3 days then the designer should wait for rest of the week. Then might designer escape LG. Designers are one of the main part in LG.

We have to find out a better solutions for the designers.



DESIGNER
korzuen
2019-07-31

I disagree with the limit thing. It would be a problem to designer who like to submit new logo in bulk (eg: submitting all 10-20 logo at the end of the month).

LG could imposed a penalty, like 10 consecutive rejection will lead to a week of suspension so they could spend more time learning and work on a better logo.



DESIGNER
mk4gfx
2019-07-31

I think the limit is a good idea till new designers reach the silver ranking then the limitation should be lifted.



DESIGNER
TomLon
2019-07-31

@Andre
I'll say it again: Beginners don't have the patience to read the rules. This is a basic problem. They have everything they need on the LG site.

@gror
A daily limit is a good idea. LG staff could make a model that would not compromise productivity.



USER
2019-07-31

I don't agree with a daily limit at all. There may be some designers who prefer to upload logos in bulk at the wnd of the week, or month, and others shall not have their creativity limited by a rule based on numbers (yet I know the purpose is to get another filter towards quality).



DESIGNER
ava_nauval
2019-07-31

Actually that's not bad idea if we follow mk4gfx suggestion.

If the LG must limit the number of uploads to all designer levels. Not until 6 months, LG will collapse.



DESIGNER
gror
2019-07-31

As @ajleroux already say in other topic, it is recommended to upload a logo when is ready and not wait and upload more once. This is better for ranking also.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-07-31

Hello,

Very interesting developments in this topic.

If the submission of multiple sub-par logos from the same new inexperienced user is really an issue, and if an upload limit of 1 logo per day is the best solution, then the upload limit could only be applied to the first submission (and the limit would be removed from the user's account when one logo is approved). Ideally, the system will inform the user about the status of the limit at all times. This way, new inexperienced users won't waste the admin's time (and bottleneck the approval queue) with multiple sub-par logo submissions and will have a limit of one upload per day while they learn the ropes. But most importantly, other new (but more experienced) users that get their first approval fairly fast won't suffer much from this early temporary limit. Similar to the current possible delayed payment for the first sale, for fraud prevention.

Alternatively, following the idea by Mk4gfx, if the upload-per-day limit is in proportion with the user's ranking, then users with less than ten, zero, or negative reputation (because of many rejections) could have an upload limit of 1 logo per day. For all other ranking levels, the upload-per-day limit could be, for example, the reputation number divided by two. Also, the upload-per-day limit could be set as brackets, similar to the existing ranking brackets. So, in this example, Level 1 users (New users) would have an upload-per-day limit of 1 logo, Level 2 (Bronze) users would have an upload-per-day limit of 5 logos, Level 3 (Silver) users would have an upload-per-day limit of 15 logos, Level 4 (Gold) users would have an upload-per-day limit of 50 logos, Level 5 (Platinum) users would have an upload-per-day limit of 250 logos (which is basically unlimited).

Just some thoughts,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
Design Star
2019-07-31

Hi @Ortega Graphics, I like your idea, it could be a possibility.



DESIGNER
ava_nauval
2019-07-31

Agree with Ortega Graphic



USER
2019-07-31
Edited 2019-07-31 by MiguelGoncalves

Ortega Graphics always brings rich and well-fundamented opinions wherever he comments on :-) Actually I like the ideia of having a variable(max.logos uploaded per day) based on the user rank or reputation, even if divided by two. The limit wouldn't be fixed for everyone or limit those who are creative and work the most.

It would reduce the amount of declined logos and would impact the way new designers prepare and submit their work, without sacrificing the approval time of other more experienced designer's logos.



DESIGNER
MonGE Designs
2019-07-31

I like how @Ortega Graphics writes at the end of almost every breakdown of any issue or a detailed intelligent idea: "just some thoughts" !! :D Smart & Humble!
I totally agree with Ortega Graphics' explanation for New Experienced vs New Inexperienced users, because it doesn't sound fair to me that just because you are a new user, you should be limited until proven otherwise. I think it is better that when proven to be an inexperienced designer, then you should be limited.



DESIGNER
stilographic
2019-07-31

Hello,
I understand Aljeroux. I usually review logos and I see this is a growing problem as many designers discover LG.
I also agree with the limitation idea. It would be interesting to validate new designers with an exam about LG guidelines as well. And, if they reapeteadly commit the same mistakes, after x number of rejections, oblige them to repeat the validation with a new exam.




DESIGNER
aefirit
2019-07-31
Edited 2019-07-31 by aefirit

Hi mates! :)

I had no idea what to comment for this post when I originally saw it, but it has had an interesting development as indicated by @Ortega Graphics, and now with everyone's opinions, I have some ideas.

@ajleroux is good to read your opinion on the subject :') you are very kind and it's clear that you like to help others, something admirable on my opinion. I started here as a novice designer, and I learned a lot because you gave me the opportunity. LogoGround is not a school, we know that, but it teaches indirectly, teaches as much as each of us is willing to learn.

@ajleroux I agree with you, the idea of an exam would not be relevant, but as indicated by @ava_nauval, LogoGround could face problems in the future if we do not attend to the compelling and growing amount of logos proposed daily, even if it does not cause a collapse or something serious, unfit proposals uploaded massively to the server, imply time for the admin, beyond those who review logos, and I think it is important that we look for a solution before the numbers of this type of Proposals get out of control.

So I think it's time to make decisions about it. Creating another filter could be the solution to prevent inexperienced users from uploading any graphic content to LG (unfit content). The idea of @mk4gfx to limite the number of proposals per rank could work, @Ortega Graphics structured a good solution based on that same idea.

I agree with @Korzuen, limiting the number of proposals for everyone terrifies me, but in the way @Ortega Graphics puts it, it can work :) I like and agree with the idea of penalizing users who have many rejected logos, for example, by reaching 10 rejected proposals in a row (for users without rank and without approved logos) then limit their account for 7-10 days so they can not upload more proposals during that time. I know it sounds drastic, but it could be an efficient filter, so users will be forced to self-assess, rethink the problem and seek to improve their designs. If they want to debut as serious designers, then let them take it seriously.

After 20-30 rejected proposals in a row, it could imply the possible deletion of the account or other penalty (at the administrator's discretion). For example, we know that there are users who upload raster images, (and things that are NOT logos), for such users, the deletion of the account could be applied, even with 10 rejected proposals in a row, why not?

Create an automatic notification for administrators, when they are reviewing a user proposal with "X" number of rejected proposals, and thus know whether to make a drastic decision at that time.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-07-31

Great feedback everyone, thank you!

Ortega Graphics, I agree, I think that's the best solution. I had a similar idea, but like MonGE Designs suggested it is better to differentiate between new, experienced designers and new, inexperienced designers. In other words, no limit on uploads unless the designer has x number of declines or consecutive declines. This is something we can implement and automate fairly easily, if it becomes necessary.

As a general rule I think measures that stifle growth should be avoided. I've never thought that the Dribbble invite system is a good idea. It has worked for them by helping with quality control and creating a sense of prestige, but at the same time it directly limits growth. I think any general limit on uploads has the same problem.

Just to reiterate, from our side dealing with large volumes isn't a problem. At the moment we review about 150-300 logos per day. With current infrastructure we will still be fine when we review 1500-3000 per day. The review process is that streamlined.



DESIGNER
Cope
2019-07-31
Edited 2019-08-01 by Cope

I have also noticed a lot of low-quality entries in the last week, but I guess reasons are that some of the new members are just too lazy to go through guidelines (I can understand that), also a lot of beginners, and unfortunately, a lot of those who want to earn fast. Of course, they are also lazy to spend time making a good logo :)
Personally, I don't have a problem when someone submits a low-quality design, I just decline them, but if that upsets the work of LG in any way, I'm all in for the changes.
I'm also pretty new here to suggest anything, but here are my two cents :)

I'm not sure that LG needs some NEW, special rule. Especially if that requires a lot of work on the website itself.
Limiting the number of logos per day seems like the best option for me, but not necessarily in some sort of "algorithm". Selling logos on LG is hardly anyone's full-day job and it's not a race, it's more like a marathon. I didn't know that from the start, but actually, the best option is to upload 1 logo per day. Even if you have the chance to upload 10, and sell some of them, you'd still need to wait for a payment cycle...so there's no need for a rush. Also, uploading one per day makes your work more visible (if I understood that right).

Also, I think we need to be more strict about quality. When I say we, of course, I mean admins, but I'm also talking about members. If I remember well, the average approval rate is something around 40%, and to be honest, that sounds too high to me. I'm not saying that my rate is important in any way, but it is around 12-15%.
We still have tons of good logos to be sold, so I don't see the urgency to just upload anything.
Uploading a logo is just a half job done anyways.

So, my suggestion is, limit upload to 1-3 and be more strict with reviews. Eventually, people will know whether this is the right place for them.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-08-01
Edited 2019-08-01 by Ortega Graphics

@MikeDesigns and @MonGE Designs, thank you for the kind words.

@Ajleroux, thank you for the explanation. Also, concerning what you said "With current infrastructure we will still be fine when we review 1500-3000 per day. The review process is that streamlined", this is excellent news. One question: How often do you get new inexperienced users that submit a large quantity of sub-par designs on their first day? I am hoping that this is actually fairly rare.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-08-01

Yup, that is rare. The vast majority of new designers start by uploading a few logos to test drive LG. If those logos are approved they then increase the pace - which is a good strategy.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-08-01
Edited 2019-08-01 by ajleroux

Cope, yes, we have seen an increase in poor quality logos uploaded and our approval rate is around 38% now.

This is something you can calculate because the logo ID's increment: 62 169 approved logos and the ID of the most recent approved logo is 164333, therefor 62169 / 164333 x 100 = 37.8%. It also means that we have declined 102K logos!



DESIGNER
Cope
2019-08-01

37.8 % seems better than the last time we talked about this and 102k sounds even better...we are getting there :D

Take care



DESIGNER
sculptor
2019-08-02
Edited 2019-08-02 by sculptor

I like the idea of day or week limits (if someone prefers batch upload) a lot. I don't care if it includes me or not - my design process is rather time consuming so I can't upload faster anyway.

Going back to the beginning of this thread, I think that the new designers can commit one serious mistake: They look at weakest approved logos on LG and think to themselves: Hey, I could do like this. And they do and get rejected.

They don't realize that approval process takes into account designer's rank. High ranked designer can push some weak logo from time to time while new one is judged more objectively. I think that message for new designers in the current state of affairs should be: Upload the best logos you have, look at our best staff - not at mediocre.



DESIGNER
LizArt Design
2019-08-02

So far I am very interested in the logoground because the logo selection is very strict, and the admin's taste is very high and prohibits the generic logo from being sold on this platform, and that of course spurs me as a new designer to learn more, it is not bad in my opinion, it's just that our goal as a designer is to sell our designs in the end, so any policy as long as it's good I will support it.
Please guide me, to become a good logo designer :)



DESIGNER
ava_nauval
2019-08-02

@sculptor

Best I can do was 3-5. If I wanna make an ultimate logo to achieve SF label (if I did). I should take all day to make just only a single logo. But that's suck :(.

@lizArt design

You have great collection tho. I like some works that you have done. You should keep to focus on your goal here :). Everybody will guide everybody. You just do it!



USER
2019-08-02
Edited 2019-08-02 by MikeDesigns

Atm I am trying to post one a day, it isn't always possible though thanks to studying and working at the same time. 'Quality over quantity' is a true concept, but finding your own style and getting to manage your strengths with your weaknesses is what truly makes you feel productive I guess.

I mean that's where you see where a real beginner is, he/she will take no time to get better at designing logos if they take time to get a real perception of what LogoGround is and what high ranked designers are doing.

So, and to finish, if an exam won't solve anything in the long term, an upload limit will do.



DESIGNER
LizArt Design
2019-08-05

@ava_nauval thank you for your support.


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