Hand-selected, original logos for sale
Once it's sold, it's gone!
Forum LG internal search keyword-within-keyword exceptions


DESIGNER

eclipse42
2017-08-05
Edited 2020-02-05 by eclipse42 permalink ANCHOR

Hello, I just want to ask why when I type for example medical it shows the newest designs as it should, but when typing real estate or lion it shows oldest or random, I am not sure. It says it is showing newest, in the upper right corner, but when going trough the logos it is not showing the newest, latest posted designs, it is showing some other (maybe random) , if someone wants to see newest designs he has to change to oldest and then again click on newest to see the newest uploads. Is there some mistake or it should be like that?



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2017-08-06

Also when typing lion in search there is a ton of horse logos, on first two pages there are over 30 horse logos that can be a problem when people are looking for logos. If they want a horse they will type horse, but when typing lion there are 30 horses on two pages, that is too much... I think the problem of this is the keyword "stallion" it has lion in it and that is why it show horse in lion section, could that be changed ?



ADMIN
ajleroux
2017-08-07

Hi Eclipse42,

We have been experimenting with a logo algorithm. Its job will be to show the best logos first. Determining which logos are "best" is a complex task to say the least. Much more so when trying to create a set of "rules" that will do it automatically. The unusual results you are seeing are tests. Some searches (like real estate logos and lion logos) are used to test the algorithm, so that we can see if it is up to the task before using it across more searches.

Thanks for reporting the lion/stallion issue. We are aware of it. There are other, similar problems with words contained within other words which our current search solution isn't handling correctly. We will look into this in the near future.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2017-08-07

Ok, thanks for the answer, I just asked because it was misleading saying that is shows newest when it doesn't, maybe it confuses the customers. Maybe you could add another section, newest, oldest, most viewed, etc, and with those to add another one saying best logos meaning best logos are currently shown ( not newest), not newest... But I understand it is a work in process and looking forward seeing it done.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2017-08-15

We have tweaked the way the search works so that a search for "lion" now no longer show results for "stallion".
http://www.logoground.com/logos.php?search=lion
If you find a bug or if there are other search terms that are generating inaccurate results please post them here.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2017-11-09

Hello some new words maybe to correct them when you find time
Bee - beer
bullet -bull
Lock - clock

Bee and beer are important I think because there is a good amount of this logos
Bullet and bull - that is a small amount of logos but there are some higher ranked bullet logos that are taking place from bull logos, one of them is mine and I don't want it there but if I delete a bullet as keyword how will someone find it
And last lock clock - there is also a good amount of these logos and it would be nice to divide them into there own categories/keywords.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2017-11-10

Many thanks eclipse42.
Fixed :)



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-01-25

Hello ajleroux, could you somehow fix keyword "eye". I saw that in search statistics there over 100 searches of eye or eye logo, but when typing it in search box it shows 23 pages of so called eye logos and there is not a single eye logo in first maybe 5-6 pages. I think that logoground has a general problem with a lot of keywords, with inaccurate results for some searches, "word in a word problem" I reported few and you fixed them. I think fixing it, would give maybe few more sales, maybe few eye logos would be sold right now, but clients are maybe not willing to go trough 23 pages of logos when there is a few eye logos in those pages. I know it is a big job, but I hope you could fix that in near future. With more logos coming in, the problem will just get bigger. I also know that the problem can be in designer typing keywords that are not relevant to logos, for example when typing woman, results given are containing few lion logos, roses, kittens, butterfly, etc. which aren't really what someone is looking for when typing woman, if someone wants butterfly he or she will type butterfly, same with roses, kittens, etc. but you can't fix them all, so maybe just fixing "eye" keyword for now if it can be done.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2018-01-25

Hi esclipse42,

Good find. Thanks. Fixed.

There is a way to change it so that all words are only searched on their own, not contained inside other words, but that would exclude many potentially relevant logos from searches where the exact form of the word isn't used. For now I think fixing problem words as we find them is the best option. If you find more, please let me know.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-02-09

Hello ajleroux, could you fix keyword "king" there are over 300 searches for "king" logos, but the search results are showing 74 pages of different logos including trees, letters, globes, etc.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-02-14

Hi, I guess you didn't see my post :) There are over 500 searches now. The word "king" can't be fixed or you missed my post, or it is on to do list.
Thanks, anyway.



DESIGNER
idStudio
2018-02-14

Hello eclipse42,

You're so great, you help all designer. Thank you

Regards,
idStudio



ADMIN
ajleroux
2018-02-15

Thanks eclipse42,

Sorry I missed your first post. Thanks for the reminder.

It's now fixed.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-02-15

Thanks ajleroux, thanks idStudio :))



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2018-02-15

I searched the LG database for GRAFFITI (for logos related to spraypaint, art, paint, wall, etc). But none of the them are graffiti related...

And there is not a single logo related to the subject...
Is this coincidence or just a failure...

All the logos that shows up are from ... bizlogo ;-)
Except one, the last one....

I hoped there was at least a handfull of logos related to graffiti/art/spraypaint :-D



DESIGNER


DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-02-15

In that case, I think that there is just not enough logos with keyword"graffiti", logoground has a problem that some keywords are not marked as keywords, meaning when you type for example "owl", and that keyword is not marked as keyword, then you get a result of 70+ pages of different logos not relevant to that keyword. In graffiti case there is only 2 pages, which probably means that there is a keyword "graffiti" but there is not enough logos of that kind.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2018-02-15

@Braindmaistro This is why I use Google, narrowing down with special operands. In this case, I would use the site operand and the pipe operand. The site operand limits the search to LogoGround and the pipe operand is equivalent to the Boolean search operand OR.

Here's the direct search query:
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:logoground.com+graffiti%7Cspraypaint%7Cart%7Cpaint%7Cwall&tbm=isch

The logos in the Google Images result page, for the most part, are very relevant.

Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



ADMIN
ajleroux
2018-02-17

Brandmaistro, there are many cases where a specific word brings up results from one designer if it is an uncommon word that that designer uses often. It is also noticeable in the Similar logos shown below the logos. The designer who made the logo will often have several of his/her own logos showing up as similar logos. Nothing to do with a specific designer account. It's the same for everyone and simply how the search deals with finding matches. It looks at keywords that are associated with the image.

Eclipse42 is right, the more obscure the search term, the fewer the results and the less likely it is that LG will be able to return good, matching results.

Thanks Ortega Graphics. The pipe operand is useful. Just to clarify for everyone else's benefit: the pipe operand works in Google search, but it is treated as a space in LG search.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-02-17

When we're talking about google search, could someone help me with understanding why on google image search, when searching for a logo on logoground through google image search, big portion of images on google search don't match the result when clicking on the image that takes me to logoground. For example, "spartan logoground", first results on the top of page, match the logo on logoground, but as you scroll down and click on different logos, those logos do not match the logos on logoground. Example: Found Spartan coffee logo on google image search, but when clicking on it, it takes me to a different spartan logo, that is not the logo on google search. How that works exactly, why that confusion happens. I know it is not just with logoground, it is same with other sites as well, but the reason why is that happening, I don't have any knowledge about it. Is it because of keywords, description, title, etc.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2018-02-17

@Eclipse42

Google indexes all images on a particular page. For a LogoGround logo page, this includes the main logo image on the top of a logo page, but also this includes the ten smaller similar logo images at the bottom of the page.

Since the similar logo images at the bottom of the page are generated dynamically by the LogoGround system and since they depend on ranking, these ten images will change overtime, therefore once in a while, following a Google Images link won't necessarily show you the expected logo page and some times the expected logo image won't even be listed within the smaller similar logo images.

A couple of solutions come to mind: You could set the exact size of the image search to 600x400 pixels to try to avoid the similar logo previews (which are 210x140 pixels). Or, you could go back and do a second Google Image search on the particular image you initially found to try to locate the actual logo page that way.

Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-02-17

Thank you Ortega Graphics, it definitely helps.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-05-22

Hello, before we talked about problem in keywords stallion, lion, for example. Well that problem is fixed when searching directly on logoground. But for example, when I type on google "lion logo for sale", first result is "Lion Logos - Logoground". When I click on that, same problem with keywords appear, search result gives bunch of logos with lions and horses because of the stallion keyword. Could that be fixed, that when coming from google search keyword "stallion" is removed from search result.
So in conclusion, problem is fixed when searching directly from logoground, but when getting there from google search result, that problem with keyword still exists. Thanks.



DESIGNER
Hiacynta
2018-05-22

Hello,

what do you think about separating words "monk" and "monkey"?
When I type "monk" it shows monkey logos, key logos and monk logos together.

The next word is "wind" and "windows".



ADMIN
ajleroux
2018-05-25

Many thanks for the feedback eclipse42 and Hiacynta.

eclipse42, I updated the site code and it looks better now. There will still be the occasional irrelevant result, but only when the designer enters irrelevant keywords. Problems like lion/stallion should not show up anymore.

Hiacynta, "monk" and "wind" fixed.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2018-05-25

Thanks ajleroux, problem is now mostly fixed I'd say, there is still few horse logos in results, but at least it is now 28 pages and not 40. On logoground when searching for lion there is 19 pages, so 28 is good, not a big deal.



USER
[Deleted Account]
2019-02-21

In my opinion, really need to separate such words as the crow, the crown. To not mislead buyers. I hope this will be useful.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-02-21

Hi Kristina2912,

Many thanks for reporting this. We made some changes and it should be a lot better now.



USER
[Deleted Account]
2019-02-22

Hi! Thanks you ajleroux! Yes, now really better!



DESIGNER
Zemfir
2019-02-22

Thank you guys for improving the service! :)
All the great sales!



USER
[Deleted Account]
2019-02-22

Thank you Zemfir! To you and all designers great success and excellent sales!



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-03-01

Hello ajleroux, could you make "train" "trains" separated keyword. Right now they are not separated from training, trainer, etc.. when searching for train it gives results of 14 pages, few of the logos are train logos..



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-03-01

Many thanks eclipse42. Fixed.



DESIGNER
bildan02
2019-03-29

In same case when i search "bat" gives results of 8 pages, but only a few bat logos, can you fix it LogoGround? Thanks :)



DESIGNER
Nicke23
2019-03-30

eclipse42 you are superb!



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-03-30

Many thanks bildan02. Fixed.



DESIGNER
Furqontino
2019-04-01

@ajleroux I see the approval submission ended about 1,5 hours ago,
my question is:
I upload a new logo just now, am I have to wait about 23 hours to see if my logo approved/declined?




ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-04-01

Hi Furqontino,

Yup, ±23 hours. Sometimes we work through all the pending logos more than once in 24 hours, but most of the time there is one review "session" per 24 hours.



DESIGNER
Furqontino
2019-04-01

@ajleroux OK, thanks for the information ;-)



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-04-24

Hi, ajleroux, could you fix these keywords:
key = monkey = hockey

Also I noticed that when I search logos on my profile, for example "key" logos, my results show me logos that are not related to that keyword nor have that keyword, so I noticed that it gave me those results because of "key" word in description. For example I have description saying piano keys, so when I search for "key" logos through my designer profile search query it shows me piano logo, because it has "keys" in description.

Should it work like that ?
Does searching for a logo from client's perspective, through logoground search box, gives them logos just because it had that word in description or a "word in a word" like my example of "key" as a keyword, and "keys" in description. Should searching for logos give results from words in description too or just from keywords?
Thanks.



DESIGNER
vianthedesigner
2019-04-24

@aclipse42, wow you're even doing research with the keywords yourself, but you're right, the algorithm might be affecting the probability of our logos to show up in the first search. But I think it's random (doesn't matter its old, new, or well-liked logos)



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-04-24

Hello,

Homonyms have always been an issue in all types of searches (even before the arrival of the web). Some homonym pairs are very obvious, some pairs are a bit more obscure; in any case, LogoGround clients are smart enough to ignore search results that don't match the meaning they intended. Here are three examples: A client looking for a logo for his rock band will ignore logos featuring spa stones. An automotive manufacturer looking for a logo featuring a metallic coil spring will ignore logos featuring flowers and meadows. A sports equipment distributor looking for a logo featuring a baseball bat will ignore logos featuring the nocturnal flying mammal.

Limiting the search to the keywords and ignoring the description won't solve the eternal problem with homonyms (or even the word-in-word problem).

The main issue is words that have nothing to do with the logo. It would be nice if the text fields could be visible in the community review, this way, the community could flag blatant irrelevant words.

On a side note, on the Search Statistics page, in general, it seems that clients look for three types of keywords:
1) The object, animal or color found on the logo (e.g., shield, lion, green, etc.)
2) The feeling, mood or emotion of the logo (e.g., luxury, unity, friendship, etc.)
3) The field, activity or industry of the logo (e.g., medicine, flooring, real estate, etc.)

By looking at that particular page, which shows the top 500 searches, it seems that the order above matches the distribution as well; the first type of keyword search seems to be the most popular one and the third seems to be the least popular. This probably means that for the most part, clients already have an idea of the kind of logo they want; most will search for the object/animal they already have in mind rather than doing a general search for the name of their industry. Obviously there are exceptions, but this is a general assumption based on an quick analysis on the list.

Therefore, even though it is a good idea to include a variety of relevant words, maybe designers should focus on the actual content of the logo rather than its interpretation or usage.

Plus, since interpretation is very subjective, it might not necessary match the client's point of view. Take into consideration that an apple, a crocodile and a gaming piece currently represent three famous companies: a computer company, a clothing company and a chain of pizzerias respectively (Apple, Lacoste and Domino's).

Just some thoughts,

Ortega Graphics



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-04-24

Hi eclipse42,

Many thanks for the feedback.

I noticed that "key" and "keys" are already treated as separate keywords in the site search. If you search in your profile that's a different system and there you may still get inaccurate results for some searches.

I agree with Ortega Graphics, limiting the search to tags only won't solve the problem.

Ortega Graphics, now that the community review speed problem is solved we will look again at adding the text fields there so that reviewers can help spot problems in the text.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-08-17

Hi, could you make horse and seahorse two separated words.

Right now in "horse" search there are seahorse logos.

I hope designers are not writing that as "sea horse" instead of "seahorse".



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-08-17

Hi eclipse42,

Done :)

There are a few "sea horse" logos and those will still show up in the search results for "horse", but logos with "seahorse" are now separate.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-08-17

Thanks :)



DESIGNER
Hiacynta
2019-09-22

Hi,
could you please separate keywords: "wine" and "intertwined".
Now search result for "wine" is not precise.

Thanks!



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-09-23

Thanks Hiacynta. Done :)



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-02-05
Edited 2020-02-05 by Ortega Graphics permalink ANCHOR

Hello,

This used to be the original dedicated topic for the famous keyword-within-keyword issue. Since then, there has been at least two more topics about this. One day, if merging of topics is possible, then the following two topics should be merged with the current one:
https://www.logoground.com/discuss.php?topic=754
https://www.logoground.com/discuss.php?topic=1462

In a related recent topic (subject: LogoGround search engine), the words cattle, delicate and intricate were listed as words that include the word cat.

There are literally hundreds of words that include the word cat. Here are 50 of them, which seem fairly common: locate, location, locator, locating, vacation, vacating, catalog, catcher, catfish, educate, education, educator, educating, educative, educational, advocate, abdicated, catapult, category, catering, caterer, cathedral, dedicated, indicate, medicate, truncated, truncate, vocation, allocate, catechism, catholic, decathlon, duplicate, catwalk, lubricate, lubricant, catalyst, syndication, caricature, catamaran, complicated, application, catastrophe, caterpillar, certificate, communicate, communication, domesticated, publication, sophisticated.

These words should be added as exceptions for the word cat and hopefully the search results for cat will look better.

Thank you,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-02-05

Oh, I see. But the title of this topic is misleading of course.

As Ortega mentioned, there are probably thousands of issues like these and separating every one is impossible. Hope that you guys resolve this issue as quickly as possible, maybe add advanced search or some tick bars for "search by exact match" or something similar.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2020-02-05
Edited 2020-02-05 by eclipse42 permalink ANCHOR

When I first started topic I did not really think of the name for topic, as I thought it will be lost among other topics over time.

Of course admins can rename it the way it fits so it is not misleading as @kassymkulov mentioned.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-02-05

@Eclipse42, you can rename it yourself. Maybe change it to "LG internal search keyword-within-keyword exceptions" or something similar.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2020-02-05

@Ortega Graphics, I thought about it but did not really think of a name for topic. Your title is great as far as my concern, so I renamed it. Thank you very much!



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-02-05
Edited 2020-02-05 by ajleroux permalink ANCHOR

Note that we are talking about two separate systems. The "logogroup" pages are older and do not show recent fixes. The word "cat" for example is treated as a separate word in normal search, but in the logogroup pages the results will still include matches to words like "cattle". We'll update those page in the near future.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-02-07
Edited 2020-02-07 by Ortega Graphics permalink ANCHOR

Can you please separate the words arrow, sparrow, wheelbarrow and narrow? Thank you.



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-02-07

Also rook from crooked, rookie, brook



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2020-02-07
Edited 2020-02-07 by eclipse42 permalink ANCHOR

Could you separate king from working, looking? Thanks.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-02-07

Arrow and rook added.

eclipse42, king is already treated as a separate word.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2020-02-07
Edited 2020-02-08 by ajleroux (admin) permalink ANCHOR

[Removed]



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-02-08

Sorry eclipse42. I removed your last message because it comments on the work of another designer. Best to discuss that via email.

I agree by the way, there are still irrelevant results, but in this case it isn't a keyword within keyword issue.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2020-02-08
Edited 2020-02-08 by eclipse42 permalink ANCHOR

@ajleroux, sorry I didn't try to comment it, just to point why I thought it is a keyword inside the keyword issue.

I apologize.

EDIT: Now I see why it is shown, as it has word king in description and possibly in the keywords.
It is all good, no keyword in keyword here, my bad :)



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-02-12

Can you please separate the words truck and thunderstruck? Thank you.



DESIGNER
Gregory M
2020-02-13
Edited 2020-02-13 by Gregory M permalink ANCHOR

I found an issue with

COG

and

reCOGnize
reCOGnizability

Might also wanna add

COGnizant
COGnition
COGnitive



DESIGNER
sculptor
2020-02-13
Edited 2020-02-13 by sculptor permalink ANCHOR

This subject of tag exceptions always makes me feel stupid. I simply don't understand why to spent so much time adding endless exceptions instead of changing search algorithms. They should not allow to search within words. You will say: some words end with "s" or other "tails" to make plural. Then add "s" rule to algorithms. Also add most popular irregular nouns (100). And that's all or at least it seems like all to me.

But there has to be some other reason and that's why I feel stupid. Can anybody explain to me why LG search engine searches inside words?



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-02-13
Edited 2020-02-13 by kassymkulov permalink ANCHOR

@sculptor

Many reasons ) I'm not the perfect guy to explain it, but someone searches for community, it's logical to also display logos with commune, communication in it. You search for drop it's logical to also display droplet results. free-freedom and the list goes on.
It's also logical to assume that a logo with communication tag will also have commune, community tags. But a designer might not add all these tags, so the search kind of solves that problem.



DESIGNER
sculptor
2020-02-14

Thank you for your explanation. However I find this kind of approach highly counterproductive. Random snippets of letters inside words much too often lead us astray. When I search for communication I don't expect to find commune or communion. Just like when searching for condominium I don't wish to find condoms.

Burden of choosing right words should rest solely on the client. When we try to guess what he means we mess it all up. Just my opinion.



DESIGNER
Gregory M
2020-02-14
Edited 2020-02-14 by Gregory M permalink ANCHOR

I agree, that's why we are building up the exceptions list. Communication can also have public transport logos, phones, computers etc. ( a lion with a headset for a call center can also use communication as a keyword and i see no reason to treat it worse than other communication logos)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communication

There are two issues compounded, one is that words have perfectly valid double meaning and second that here clients look for a brand for a business type not just a specific "thing". This is why Relevancy needs proficiency in English and perspectivic thinking from the clients view and consider needs. Axing keywords because they are written later in the chain is not improving any of this.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-02-14
Edited 2020-02-14 by Ortega Graphics permalink ANCHOR

Sculptor,

The LG internal search engine has been set to find singular words within plurals; so, currently, when a client types "dog", the LG system will find logos that include the word "dog" and/or the word "dogs".

But this also means that in that same search, the system will find logos that includes the words: "doggy", "doggies", "bulldog", "hotdog", "dogma", "dogsled", "endogenic", "ondograph", "amidogen", "sundog", etc.

Obviously, logos that include some of these words would be okay to be included, but some logos would be considered irrelevant for a "dog" search (and some of these words are fairly rare anyway).

Therefore, the list of keyword-within-keyword exceptions is currently needed.

Plurals in keywords are explained on section 5 of this page: https://www.logoground.com/make-money-in-logo-design.php


Kassymkulov,

Currently, searching for "community", won't list logos with the words "commune" or "communication".


Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
Arda
2020-02-14

Hello,

Could you separate "muse" and "museum", "amusement"...



DESIGNER
sculptor
2020-02-14

Ortega, To be true I don't understand your reasoning. If I want to have plural from dog included in the search for dog why do I have to permit also endogenic?

I've never built algorithms for search engine but if I have to it I would build logical sequence that go somehow like this: If someone searches for a "word" - proceed as follows:
1. Check for the exact "word"
2. Check for "word+s"
3. Check for "word+es"
4. Check for "word-s"
5. Check for "word-es"
6. Check my list of irregular nouns and if "word" is present add its plural/singular to my search

This way search result would include most of plurals but would exclude results like "endogenic" when searching for dog. I'm sure there still would be some false
positives but list of exceptions would be a lot shorter. Or maybe there is some error in my thinking?



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-02-14
Edited 2020-02-14 by Ortega Graphics permalink ANCHOR

Sculptor,

It is not my reasoning; I was just explaining how the LG search engine currently works.

I completely agree with you; this was exactly my thought process when I first read about plurals on that page several years ago; at the time, there wasn't even a list of word-within-word exceptions. Now that the exceptions list is growing, it seems like the contrary would be easier (pluralize or singularize searched words and ignore all word-within-words).


Ajleroux,

To continue with the example above, if a client types "dogs", then any logo that has only the word "dog" (and not "dogs") will be excluded. This is a small issue.

Granted, maybe the client only want to see logos with multiple dogs, but because of your recommendation on the aforementioned page, many users will add the word "dogs" even when the logo features only one dog.

In any case, we can assume, a client will forgive a search engine that shows logos with one dog when searching for the plural word "dogs" and vice-versa.

Currently, the list of exceptions is probably very long, but most definitely it is very very far from being complete; in the English language there are several thousand words that include other words. Almost every three or four letter word is included in other words. It will be extremely difficult for this word-within-word exception list to be complete.

I bet you already thought of implementing pluralization or singularization of searched words. Is there a reason why this was never implemented? There are many snippets of PHP code online that can convert between singulars and plurals. Here's one that also includes standard exceptions:
https://gist.github.com/tbrianjones/ba0460cc1d55f357e00b

If the LG search engine is updated with such code, then the word-within-word issue will be immediately fixed. Also, the small issue mentioned above will be fixed as well (client searching for plural only).

Edit to add: Here are some examples of results when using this new code snippet to singularize or pluralize words...
If a client types "dog", the system will display all logos that include the word "dog" or the word "dogs", but logos that include words like "dogma", "dogsled" or "endogenic" will be automatically excluded from the results.
If a client types "mouse", the system will display all logos that include the word "mouse" or the word "mice", but logos that include the word "mousetrap" will be automatically excluded from the results.
If a client types the word "geese", the system will display all logos that include the word "goose" or the word "geese", but logos that include the word "mongeese" will be automatically excluded from the results.


Just some thoughts,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
sculptor
2020-02-14

Ortega, Yes that's exactly what I meant and you even knew where to look for actual working code (I don't know much about about php).

I can only guess that current LG search engine was built in the times when there was so small pool of logos that having irrelevant search results was better than strict approach which would turn much too often zero.

Hopefully Admin will forgive me this inquiry. I'm really satisfied wit recent changes in the search. The mere fact that all logos are now findable is most important.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-02-14
Edited 2020-02-14 by ajleroux permalink ANCHOR

Truck, cog and muse added.

No problem Sculptor. :) I'm definitely not against changing it and you are absolutely right, the current search was a good solution when there were few logos and we wanted to avoid "No results" showing up too often. Now that there are logos for almost anything a client could type it might be time to re-invent LG search.

For your testing pleasure:
logos-test.php added, temporarily.
It's just a raw exact-match search, without converting singular/plural. All words within words excluded.

Example:
https://www.logoground.com/logos.php?search=dog (normal search)
https://www.logoground.com/logos-test.php?search=dog (exact matches only)

Ortega Graphics, thank you for the link. That looks like a good solution.



DESIGNER
sculptor
2020-02-15

Thank you! That was quick.

I have to admit I'm overwhelmed by the big number of results. It's really hard to compare both approaches without inventing some method. The strict search brings 28 pages of results and normal (current) search brings 33 pages. So not a huge difference. I can only guess that part of the difference are false positives. Probably longer and real live tests would give more precise answer.

But speaking in more general terms I think that most of the LG visitors are more or less aware of how search works and they tend to add some variations to their search strings. I don't believe we would sell much less logos - even when offering only singular searches. Searching inside words with the current number of logos seems unnecessary.



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2020-02-18

Hi @ajleroux

Can you please separate 'Coot' from 'Scooter'?
When I search for 'Coot' (a water bird), many scooter logos appear.

A few time the word 'mascoot' shows up. I think they mean 'mascot' (with one 'O').

Thanks!



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-02-18

Brandmaistro, every exception we add to the list makes the page fractionally slower. That's fine if it makes search better, but there is only one exact match for "coot" so I don't think it makes sense to add it, in terms of benefit gained.



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2020-02-18

Okay Good to know this. I can live with that 😊



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-03-10

Can you please separate the words garden and kindergarden? I know that this is a misspelling of kindergarten, but currently there are 44 logos using this misspelled word (and they all appear in the search results for "garden").

Thank you.



DESIGNER
mistershot
2020-03-10

Hello,

Could you separate "stallion" and "lion"?



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-03-10

@Mistershot, stallion/lion was reported and fixed in 2017, you can scroll up to see the fifth post above or you can click on this direct link: https://www.logoground.com/discuss.php?topic=244#1683



DESIGNER
mistershot
2020-03-10

Thank you @Ortega Graphics. :)
I ve tested it on the search and you are right but while searching for lion on my own logos one horse logo appears because of the stallion keyword.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-03-10
Edited 2020-03-10 by Ortega Graphics permalink ANCHOR

Yes, the current list of keyword-within-keyword exceptions only applies to the internal search engine on the public store. Applying it to the search within a designer's personal view has been discussed before; maybe it is on the to-do list. But in any case, the recently discussed PHP code will eventually be implemented and then this keyword-within-keyword exceptions list won't be necessary.



DESIGNER
mistershot
2020-03-10

Oh that's great! I didn't know that! thanks again @Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-03-18

Do you think it's possible to implement a specific search for a keyword "sold", which upon searching would show all the sold logos? We could then sort by newest first etc. This will be something internal only known to designers. Even if you're planning on a separate sold logo page, this would be another method of seeing them.



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-04-19

Please separate pot from spot, spotlight, potato, depot, potion, jackpot, potent.



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-04-23

Missed?



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-04-23

Yup, missed it. Thanks for reposting. Pot added.



DESIGNER
mk4gfx
2020-04-25

hi @ajleroux,
can you please separate the word call from calligraphy and phone from microphone, headphone.
thank you!



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-04-25

Thanks mk4gfx. Done :)



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2020-04-28

@ajleroux
Could you please separate the word 'cine' from 'medicine'.

cine*- related to cinematography, filming and motion picture.

Thank you!



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-04-28

Hi Lavrin UKR,

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think "cine" is common enough to justify it. Every exception we add to the list makes the page fractionally slower so we don't want to overdo it. I think someone looking for a movie-related logo will probably just search "movie" or "film" or "reel" etc.



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-05-26
Edited 2020-05-26 by kassymkulov permalink ANCHOR

Hello.
This one's a little problematic, searching for "tie" yields too much unrelated results, because any word ending with -ty in plural form will have a -tie in it...
But, most common words I found in the search results:

activities properties communities patient patients deities qualities facilities opportunities abilities parties
Bootie cutie panties charities

We really need exact match search ;)



DESIGNER
Hiacynta
2020-06-02

Hello,
could you please separate the words "pine" from happiness, pineapple,

Thanks!



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-06-02

...and also the "tie" I mentioned above.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-06-02

Tie and pine added. Sorry kassymkulov I missed your earlier post.



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-06-14

@ajleroux
Thanks, now there are just 4 pages for tie (it was 24 before) :)

Another word - Jew
Can we separate it from jewel, jewelry, jewellery.
This got me actually thinking that the base word of jewelry is Jew (it kinda makes sense), but I was wrong, it's from latin meaning plaything, so no relation to Jewish people.



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2020-06-17

@kassymkulov
I had the identical guesses about the origins of word jewelry))



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2020-06-17

@ajleroux
• One more word - Pub
• Needs separation from 'public' and 'publisher'



DESIGNER
Hiacynta
2020-07-01

Hello,
it is possible to separate words "pen" and "penguin"?

Thanks



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-07-02

Pen and pub added. Thanks for the suggestions.

kassymkulov, I didn't add the word Jew to the exceptions. Each word on the list makes the search fractionally slower so I want to avoid adding words that would affect very few or no logos.



DESIGNER
mk4gfx
2020-07-06

Can you please separate the word Bot from Bottle and Bottom



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-07-06

... and continuing the "bot", it might need to be separated from these too:
both (12 pages), botanical (5 pages), botany (3 pages)



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-07-21
Edited 2020-07-21 by kassymkulov permalink ANCHOR

@ajleroux
Please see the "bot" request above

Also, please separate lip from
eclipse42, ellipse, eclipse, clip, clips

lips from
eclipse42, ellipse, eclipse, clips

clip and clips from
eclipse42, eclipse

or maybe @eclipse42 could just remove his name from the tags? Nothing wrong with putting your name in the tags, but your username just contains so many other words in it :)))



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2020-07-22
Edited 2020-07-22 by eclipse42 permalink ANCHOR

Kassymkulov, I talked to ajleroux about the keyword and he said it is okay, we just separated eclipse42 from eclipse.

I started adding my keyword because I had about 60 searches of my username on LG. For some reason that result search is gone now in stats, not sure why. Stats seems to be stuck most of the time and does not look like they were before, or just nobody in client section is searching anything (top result is bbb with 38 searches, which is weird).

Anyway, if separating those keywords will slow the website and create issues, is there a way Ajleroux that you could remove eclipse42 keyword as a keyword or ban it, as manually removing it would take forever.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-07-22

Sorry for missing the earlier posts in this thread. I've added "lips" to the exceptions. I have not added bots or clips. As mentioned before we want to avoid adding to the list unnecessarily and I think that words with better alternatives (e.g. "robot" rather than "bot") should perhaps not be added.

eclipse42, no need to remove your username. I think it was a problem for the keyword "lips", but that is now added as an exception so we're good.
(If you want to remove it at a future date, let me know and I can bulk-remove it for you.)



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2020-07-23

Ajleroux thank you very much.



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-08-06
Edited 2020-08-06 by kassymkulov permalink ANCHOR

Hello.

Searching for "question" results in 34 pages, most of which have no relation to question whatsoever. The reason is some designers use "for any questions please contact me" or some similar form in their description. Is there a way to overcome this? So that searching for question displays results related to question e.g question mark, mystery, confusion, answer etc.
The same applies to "contact", also 34 pages of unrelatable results.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-08-06

Ajleroux,

On the above post, Kassymkulov makes a very good point.

I would like to propose a two-part solution for this issue.

First, for users that have enabled the contact button on their profile, it would be a good idea to display the same "contact this designer" button on all their logos. This will in turn, make unnecessary any text in the description inviting clients to contact designers.

Second, since a contact button would be visible on the logo pages of designers that enabled that option, then various combinations of these words could be added to the list of phrases that the system checks to warn users about generic descriptions; this then should be added as a bullet on this page: https://www.logoground.com/generic-info.php

By the way, for those interested in more information about that particular page, see this topic:
https://www.logoground.com/discuss.php?topic=1299

Just some thoughts,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2020-08-13

@Ajleroux, I am reviving this topic because after a week it got slightly buried. Thank you.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-08-14
Edited 2020-08-14 by ajleroux permalink ANCHOR

Many thanks kassymkulov and Ortega Graphics.

I'm not convinced that we should disallow "question" and "contact" as words in the description. If someone wants a question mark logo, for example, they would surely type "question mark" and not "question" in the search field. It's not a word that is typically used on its own in relation to a logo. Ditto for "contact".

I also think we should allow designers to invite people to contact them in the description. It's a natural thing to have in there.

The contact button on the logo pages could work. I've added it to the to-do list. There is a possible SEO downside: The logo.php page is one of the primary SEO content pages and the designer contact form is "noindexed". Typically we want link flow to be towards primary pages and not from primary pages, especially not from primary pages to pages that are dead ends in terms of SEO. But that said, it's on the to-do list and we will investigate.



DESIGNER
Hiacynta
2020-10-04

Hi,
What do you think about separating word "ant" (insect)? Now when I type "ant" in search results are 295 pages, but it is hard to find "ant".



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-10-04

Hi Hiacynta,

Good find, thanks. Fixed. There is now only one page of results for "ant".



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2020-11-16

@ajleroux
• One more word - USA
• Needs separation from:
- medusa
- thousand
- musafeer (designer: msaifulhak)



DESIGNER
kassymkulov
2020-11-17

Please also separate road from broad.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2020-11-18

Thank Lavrin UKR and kassymkulov. Both added.



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2021-01-02

@ajleroux
• One more word - bus
• Needs separation from - business



ADMIN
ajleroux
2021-01-02

Done. Thanks Lavrin UKR.



DESIGNER
Arda
2021-01-10

Search for "house" also gives the result which includes "lighthouse"

thanks



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2021-01-10

@ajleroux
• One more word - lab
• Needs separation from - label



DESIGNER
mc design
2021-03-02

The keyword "ship" is also not really working, it's showing all kinds of logos when searching it...



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2021-06-03

@ajleroux
• One more word - hard
• Needs separation from - hardware



ADMIN
ajleroux
2021-06-03

Sorry for missing your earlier posts!

We are currently working on the search result page for a fairly major update, but these suggested changes are noted and will be part of the update which we hope to have ready in the next few days.



DESIGNER
Proff!
2021-07-15
Edited 2021-07-15 by Proff! permalink ANCHOR

@ajleroux,

I found a search with the keywords "Pin", "Map" & "Mapping" but the search results are irrelevant.

The search results themselves are dominated by animal logos.

Keyword contains word "PIN"
~ beekeePINg, jumPINg, helPINg, sleePINg, shaPINg, camPINg, PINk, dripPINg, landscaPINg, ProfessIoNal, comPutINg, rePresentINg, shopPINg, PaINt, overlapPINg,

Keyword contains word "MAP" ~ MAPle

Thank you.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2021-07-16

Many thanks Proff, the results should look a bit better now. :)



ADMIN
ajleroux
2021-07-16

Just to clarify:

A word like PaINt would not be a match where the search is for the word pin. Although all three characters are contained in the word, they have to be in sequence and also adjacent for it to be considered a match. So a word like PINterest would match, but PaINt would not, because it has an extra letter between the P and the I.



DESIGNER
Proff!
2021-07-17
Edited 2021-07-17 by Proff! permalink ANCHOR

@ajleroux,

Now for the search results "PIN" makes sense and is much better than before.

Thanks for the explanation admin.



DESIGNER
Proff!
2021-07-17

@ajleroux,

Keyword contains word "RIVER"

~ dRIVER
~ screwdRIVER
~ RIVERstone

++

Unique Keywords contains word "RIVER" :)

~ spaRtan... negatIVE... constRuction
~ suRvIVE ... beaR
~ chuRches... creatIVE, paint, watercoloR
~ foRmIng beaVER

Maybe this is a unique & good search, where some vocabulary forms keywords.

In the search results for the keyword "RIVER", several logos appear with the vocabulary I mentioned above.

Maybe this looks organic and helps the designer to show up the logo in LG search engine.

Only report cases. I think this is interesting.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2021-07-18

Hi Proff!,

Nope, you misunderstood. The word RIVER is contained in dRIVER, but it is not contained in a phrase like suRvIVE beaR. All the required characters are in that phrase and they are in the correct order, but they have other characters in-between so it is not a match. For our search function to consider it a match, the characters must be (1) all present and (2) in the correct order and (3) right next to each other, not interrupted by other characters.

In other words, a search for RIVER will not show a logo that includes the phrase suRvIVE beaR.



DESIGNER
Proff!
2021-07-18

@ajleroux,
I am so sorry. Looks like I'm misunderstood!

Thank you :)
Hatur nuhun :) (sundanese language)



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2021-07-19

@ajleroux
• One more word - VIP (very important person)
• Needs separation from - viper snake



DESIGNER
Proff!
2021-07-19
Edited 2021-07-19 by Proff! permalink ANCHOR

@ajleroux,
Please also separate "Tail' from

~ Cocktail
~ Detail, Detailed, Detailing
~ Tailor
~ Retail, Retailer

Separate "Park' from

~ Spark
~ Parking

Hope it's right this time :)



ADMIN
ajleroux
2021-07-20

Thanks Lavrin UKR and Proff for the suggestions.

Park added.

I don't think we should add VIP or tail. We want to limit the number of words on the exceptions list to ones that are really necessary - just to keep the code streamlined and fast-loading.

To use the needle and haystack analogy: If the needle (for example the word pin) is a word people are likely to type in the search box and if the haystack (for example paint) is also a commonly used word, then it makes sense to separate them. If either the needle-word or the haystack-word are rarely used, then it is better to not add them.



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2021-07-21

@ajleroux
Well, I got the 'needle and haystack' idea, if the word is not in top-searched area, we can forget it, however:

1) I tried word VIP at some other sites and it brings up -letter V, -gold, -luxury items, -crowns results, I guess these are pretty common. Meanwhile LogoGround has mostly snakes.
2) In Google search word VIP has 'About 2,350,000,000 results'

P.S. It's also the question of precision, but if that slows down the LG search engine, I understand, let it be as is, it can be updated any other day.



DESIGNER
Proff!
2021-07-29
Edited 2021-07-29 by Proff! permalink ANCHOR

@ajleroux,
Please separate "Wall" from

~ Swallow
~ Wallet
~ Firewall
~ Wallabies



ADMIN
ajleroux
2021-07-30

Thanks Proff. We're working on a site-wide update at the moment and would rather not implement individual changes to pages while that is going on - just so that we can keep track of everything. We will get back to this change next time. :)


Login or register to post.

135 posts
3205 views
Last post on 2021-07-30

Jump to last post

Post a reply

Start a new, separate topic

Back to forum index

Category: Feedback

Instagram Logo LogoGround on Instagram

Can we make LogoGround better for you?

Suggestion box Report a bug


© Copyright 2011-2021, Graphics Factory CC. All rights reserved. Use of this web site constitutes acceptance of the  User Agreement & Disclaimer. LogoGround.com is a division of Graphics Factory CC, SA., Reg Nr. 2008/121028/23

God First Policy