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Forum Abandoned Projects & Inherited Accounts


ADMIN

ajleroux
2019-02-05
Edited 2019-10-02 by ajleroux permalink ANCHOR

It has been suggested that we increase payments for abandoned projects. There is a potential problem and I'd like to hear what everyone thinks:

Let's say we increase the payment from $40 to 50%. That seems fair, because on average about 50% of the work happens before the sale and 50% of the work is in editing the logo for the client. We know that this ratio is different for some, but it is reasonable as an average.

The question is: How many designers will be tempted to ignore sales and just take the 50%? Don't dismiss this possibility too easily. If a designer hates working with clients (or is unable to due to a language barrier) it can seem sensible to rather invest that time in making more logos. If they don't have to work with clients they can produce twice as many logos and in the end get paid the same amount of money for the same amount of time.

It's not a great strategy, ignoring repeat business, but some designers will not take this into account.

For LogoGround it would be a good deal - we don't mind working with clients and we make 50% each time someone does this, but it is not that simple. Before a logo is reassigned, the client has to wait longer than we said he/she would have to wait. If that happens often, we have more unhappy clients, earning us a bad reputation and eventually fewer sales for everyone. And of course it is dishonest to promise clients any turnaround time while knowing that some designers will deliberately ignore their clients.

Paying $40 for abandoned projects, as we do now, means that we remove the incentive by making abandoned projects unprofitable for designers. I believe that this is a big part of the reason why there are very few abandoned projects on LogoGround - and very few unhappy clients.

The exception is where the designer is no longer alive, as we recently discussed here on the forum. That is a different matter. Paying the designer's family 50% of the sale is no problem. Paying more than 50% would also be fine - whatever is fair. I would much rather see LogoGround pay generously in these cases while making abandoned projects very unprofitable in all other cases.

I hope that makes sense! Let me know what you think.

----------------------------------------------------------
Updated policy, based on community feedback

Payment for abandoned projects remains $40.
Payment to the family for abandoned projects where the designer is no longer alive is set at 75%.

Make sure your hard work benefits the right people! Please do the following:

1. Set up a will and stipulate what happens to your creative output. Who owns it?
2. Make sure your family can access your LogoGround and financial accounts.
3. Make sure that someone in your family knows to contact LogoGround so that we can increase their share from $40 to 75% - unless they are able to work on logo revisions when the logos sell, in which case they can simply take over the account and receive the full share.



DESIGNER
ALIASII
2019-02-05

You could have a rule where if designers abandon too many projects, they get banned.

Though I honestly always thought 1 business day was very short. 2-3 seems much more reasonable, at least for the initial contact with the client. More so since the pause feature is very basic, and seems to block your entire profile page from view. It would be nice to have an update section, where we can write why we might be gone and when to expect us back. (similar to etsy's update function)



DESIGNER
MonGE Designs
2019-02-05

Getting only $40 hurts a lot. specially if the design price was very high.
But that is what force us to not be careless about our designs here.
If the cut is a percentage, i know some designers will never use the pause button, instead they will just raise their prices very high so that no matter what, they will have a good payment delivered every month to them without having to actually work with a client. which in my opinion is not what Graphic design is about. Designing a logo is about communicating a message of a business/client, the work doesn't just end with uploading a beautiful design.

In my opinion, $40 is better for the long term business and actually good for designers to force them to not be careless and to prove their capabilities and have a good relationships with some of the clients that might turn into a long term business relationship. But i have to say that even if LG decided to get %50 it would actually be more profitable to LG as i'm very sure many designers will start abandoning a lot of projects.



DESIGNER
Fbastiart
2019-02-06

I agree with Aliasii
1 business day is very short to contact designer ~ client. So I prefer logo ground can give a designer 2-3 days, i think that's ideal for a project notify.

Then for a charge in "abandon project", I always agree with you LG. Whatever that 40% or 50% (:

regards



DESIGNER
logoswim
2019-02-06

I second @MonGE's 1st point she made in the second para. However, I don't think if 40%- 50% ratio changes to 50%- 50%, there will be a drastic change in logo abandonment.

If the ratio is 30%- 70% (for designers), then even designer doesn't think about to let go that 30%. 30% means $45 on LG as minimum logo price is $150. In my country, I can spend one evening with my 2 friends with beer & food with this 30% amount (even after deduction of PayPal commission)!!

Even if LG takes 10% out of abandoned logos still I wouldn't let go that 10%. The reason is it keeps bad impression on the client's mind, if logo maker is not finalized the assignment from start to finish. Ambiguity will always be there, on the client's mind about the final design outcome.

Banning designer makes sense if he/ she abandoned many logos, but only if LG's cut is zero% out of the profit. This looks impractical.


All in all the best practice is to finish the project from start to finish if possible, without thinking about LG's cut (10% or 50% whatever) And keep telling, yourself, one thing always "Keep It Simple Silly!!" :) :)......



DESIGNER
aefirit
2019-02-06

Is a interesting point... I agree with @MonGE Designs, $40 force us to work with clients and to take care about our designs and clients, I think that's the way we should to work as designers.

I always think the same, the main point is not the money... is much more than that, is the contribution, the gratification, the happy clients :) when we are part of the solution of someone else's problem, in this case, making graphical solutions. If a client is satisfied then we all win, so I think that should be our main focus, as community and as professionals.

So, I think the right thing is to make decisions that keep customers satisfied, that keeps making them come back, that they recommend us.

About the payments, I think $40 is very little, and 50% is a lot... maybe 20% of the payment for designers who abandon their projects is a low margin but more reasonable. In this way, it would not be an incentive to abandon projects, nor would it be a great loss for designers who for some reason could not respond to a client in time.



DESIGNER
aefirit
2019-02-06

@ALIASII, @fbastiardesign, I understand that, in my country are several problems, including internet and electrical problems... So, I mainly can be connected and answer during dawn, but, allow 2-3 days to answer to a client could be negative for all of us here, as community and as professionals too. Not all customers are willing to wait for that time, especially after having made the payment, @ajleroux already mentioned this in another post, and I agree with him, it is best to keep the response time in 1 day, is one of the key elements in the success of LG.



DESIGNER
Dmitriy Dzendo
2019-02-06

Greetings LG!
My opinion is: Leave a payment of 40 dollars, but increase the response time 3 days.
In the event of a tragedy (the designer became very ill or worse) provided that a letter from loved ones, assign a payment of 50%



DESIGNER
Fbastiart
2019-02-06

yes, I agree with @FuturaSan too



DESIGNER
Gregory M
2019-02-06

Honestly i think you should rather take money from inactive designers who clearly dont give a single fuck about the money if they dont care to react to a sale than to put tax on every designer including the people who clearly do care and do react to a sale.



DESIGNER
MonGE Designs
2019-02-06

I agree with @aefirit. We attract clients who needs a good design in the very least time. 2-3 days is incredibly very long time to wait for a Digital Product that is already designed and doesn't take more than 30 minutes to set a business name or change colors (that if it is even required!!).
We live in a time where shipping companies are competing to deliver a physical product in less than 3 days. Saying to deliver a ready made digital file in 2-3 days is very bad for business and will only drive clients away.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-02-06

Hello,

Concerning the turnaround time for revisions, LogoGround should not modify the current requirement; one business day is very reasonable.

Personally, when one of my logos is purchased on LogoGround, my initial response to the client is, on average, 2.5 hours. I have verified this; my longest initial response was 9 hours and my shortest initial response was 10 minutes (the median being 1.5 hours). I haven't analyzed the response times for revisions, but after perusing my LogoGround projects, an educated guess would be that my response time for revisions is around 4 hours, on average.

Since I joined LogoGround on February 28th, 2017, I have visited the website daily and I will continue to do so. I am certain that I will never miss a sale.

Therefore, the amount for abandon projects won't have an effect on me directly. But I will agree with any decision about this, as long as the reputation of LogoGround is considered in said decision.

Concerning the amount to be paid after the demise of a designer, I would also much rather see LogoGround pay generously to the family, like it was said in the opening post; definitely more than 50%, as suggested. Maybe a fair amount for the family would be 75%, so the LogoGround admins would receive 25% for completing the customization process (including logos sold as-is, where no customization is required).

Incidentally, what is the percentage of purchased logos sold as-is?

Thank you,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2019-02-06

@Gregory M
But how do we know if a designer is inactive without a good reason. What if somwbody became seriously ill or even worser... passed away. I suggest that LG take some time to investigate the reason of abadonned projects (maybe not after 1 sale, but when it seems it is frequently).

@admins
How many abadoned projects do we have on LG?



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2019-02-06

@Ortega
I agree with a higher price if a designer passed away. And it is clear that is not because of lack.

For me it doesn't feel right if somebody gets the full or half salesprice after he passed away.



DESIGNER
Dmitriy Dzendo
2019-02-06

In general, I agree. Designer response time 3 days, a lot for the client. Of course, any buyer wants to get the goods immediately (as soon as possible). This is very logical.
In general, I think it would be very cool if LG makes the mobile application of its site. Then it will be very convenient to control the buying process and a quick response from the designer. Only files you can still download only from your computer. But, you can notify the client (this is good) that within a few hours (time to get home) the designer will send files.



DESIGNER
Zemfir
2019-02-06

I fully support Futarasan



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-02-06

Many thanks for your feedback.

Banning designers for not responding to clients seems a little extreme, even if it happens often. There could be a legitimate reason why they're not responding.

Turnaround time will stay unchanged for now. 2 to 3 days won't work. We occasionally have clients complaining about the 1 business day turnaround being too slow. Increasing it could be a sales-killer. Our own average response time more or less matches Ortega Graphics' averages above and we usually get through a few revision rounds in one day.

ALIASII, changes to the pause function coming soon!

Ortega Graphics, 19.4% of logos are purchased as is.

Brandmaistro, I don't have precise stats, but in the early days there were many abandoned projects. Probably 25% to 30%. We worked hard to fix that and we are now down to around 1 abandoned project for every 50 sales, or ±2%.

FuturaSan, an app might be in LogoGround's future :)

-------
Ok, payment for abandoned projects:

1. Abandoned projects, payment to designer unchanged: $40
2. Abandoned projects, payment to designer's family: 75%

If you see a better way to handle abandoned projects, please share!



DESIGNER
ALIASII
2019-02-06

OK. Seems fair. I didn't really like the idea of banning. But it was the only alternative I could think to punish designers if the abandoned payout was a percent value.

One business day seems short since many artists here work full-time. But I'm ok with it, especially if the number of abandoned projects is so low. I guess it must work out.



DESIGNER
aefirit
2019-02-06

Thank you so much for the information @ajleroux! Yes, would be great an mobile app for LG :D



USER
[Deleted Account]
2019-02-07

Hi! Fair In my opinion, the designer’s ban is very tough, there may be good reasons for it, I think it’s fair about the abandoned projects of $ 40; if the designer is really interested in work and remuneration, he will work and will not give it up. However, the statistics of abandoned projects show very little. Work time is not worth the change, the answer within one working day is completely normal, if the work time is increased, this may alienate buyers. A quick response to the client is a guarantee of success for LG. Payment to the family in the event of a tragedy of 75% is very good.



DESIGNER
Gregory M
2019-02-07

@brandmaistro

If you cant be bothered to pick up your money you better be dead. We could retroactively pay them if they provide some evidence they were hospitalized, had their house burn down etc. I dont think that's too much to ask and too hard to provide.



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2019-02-07

@Gregory M
I understand what you say, What I mean is the situation where a well disciplined (and good selling) designer at some day don't respond. I think that in such case LG must try to check why he/she left his account. Now LG take care of it (automatic, I guess without a message after the first 24h).

I can not imagine that I ignore my own sold logos in my account, but when this happens to me there is something wrong... :-O

But the % of logos that are left behind is now very small if you compare this with years ago.



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2019-02-07

A second email (after 24h) or a simple message via twitter etc. is not a big deal, I guess.

Since sold logo emails are not 100%. I think I fresk out when this happens to me and I did not checked the site that day (bad luck).

But it is good that we can discuss this and that LG picked up a lot of issues in the past few days/weeks!



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-02-07

Gregory M, sure, if someone gets in touch we can always work something out.

Brandmaistro, just to clarify:
2% of projects are abandoned, but that's not because 2% of our emails fail. As far as we can tell, 0% of our emails have failed over the last few months, but 2% of designers didn't check their email! :)

I don't think sending more emails will make a difference in those cases.



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2019-02-07

I know Andre, but it was just an example. But I believe you if you say ot is not the main reason 😉.



DESIGNER
Lavrin UKR
2019-02-07

=== TIME ===

1) I understand that a client wants it all on the spot, and LogoGround reputation depends on it. However, buying a good logo is not buying hot pancakes:)) If the client gonna use the logo for the next 10-100 years, I think that makes sense to wait for 24 or 48 hours.

2) If we take into consideration that a client can live in different time zone then 24 hours isn't that much. I mean if a client makes a purchase just before I go to bed, the soonest possible time I can respond is 8-10 hours after the sale(!)

Briefly: 1-2 business day to reply/customize the logo is not that much.

=== IGNORE 50% OF $$$ ===

1) I have never seen a single designer in my life who wanted to get less..! especially from selling his own stuff. That would be really dumb thing to do- to intentionally ignore the client.

2) I guess most abandoned projects are not made on purpose, it's just the designer who is either late or inattentive.
But if only 2% projects are abandoned, this matter has minor importance.

Anyway, thanks for listening to the community before making a final decision.


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