Hand-selected, original logos for sale
Once it's sold, it's gone!
Forum LogoGround & Copyright


ADMIN

ajleroux
2019-03-14

We are considering a change: We want to update the LogoGround user agreement so that LogoGround may act as your authorized representative in copyright claims/disputes. This would mean that we have your permission to go after copycats (including sending DMCA notices) when we find one of your logos used on another site.

Although we won't have the time to chase down every copycat, this update would allow us to act on your behalf when we find someone who copied many logos from different LogoGround designers.

What do you think?



DESIGNER
MonGE Designs
2019-03-14

This is a great idea! i was wishing for it!!



DESIGNER
misma
2019-03-14

Yes that is really great and efficient for all of us. Not sure how is it going to work with other sites who ask for direct owner's claims only!



DESIGNER
mk4gfx
2019-03-14

Great idea!



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-03-14

What do you think about some service maybe. Service that would go after thieves and in case of purchase of the logo, LG would get a cut from sale (percentage) because they did all the work, chasing the thief and making them buy the logo. For example I managed to sell 3 logos last month, after people who stole the logo decided to purchase.
Some designer don't have knowledge of the process, on how to contact them properly and politely even though they are stealing the logo. LG could jump in, in those kind of situations, for a certain percentage from a sale.
That was just a thought that came in my mind last month, because dealing with thieves can be a long process and time consuming, those who don't have enough time or nerves for it, could be willing to pay to someone to do it, in this situation it would be a percentage just in case of sale being made.
I know it was boring for me with DMCA sending to FB, Instagram, website hosting providers, talking through e-mails with thieves, etc. Some guys from India even hired a lawyer to talk to me, but I think it was a lie, just some fast created e-mail representing some legal department, yeah right.. but the point is, thieves have no shame and often would lie and threat to you, just so you would give up on chasing them..
I know you are talking about LG acting if logo is found on another site, but it could be good if there is some service that designer can hire LG staff member to act on his behalf in case logo is stolen by some company, etc..

Just few thoughts....



DESIGNER
AOD Estudio
2019-03-14

Excellent, Thanks.



DESIGNER
Gregory M
2019-03-14

Eclipse, that would monetize help in catching thieves. We all have a vested interest in helping each other asking for money would be gross.



DESIGNER
Gregory M
2019-03-14

Also dont you have to finish a law school to represent someone for money?



DESIGNER
Gregory M
2019-03-14

The longer i think about it the grosser it gets, its like seeing someone having a wallet stolen from them and then asking how much will he pay you to call the cops and testify how the thief looked like. It also creates more financial incentive for stealing logos.



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-03-14

I disagree. If designer don't have knowledge to do so, shall they leave it to theievs. If you have knowledge for it, don't get caught in this as it doesn't concern you. You have the knowledge to do so, great.
Anyway it was just a thought as I had to send DMCA so far in this year only, 64 times for 50+ stolen logos. I can bet your logos get stolen too, you just don't take time to search for them maybe... on the other hand I think it is irrisponsible for designers to sell logos being used by other companies. Don't get me wrong, maybe you do search for them and send DMCA Notices, and you know how much time and effort it takes, but some designers don't know how to do so. We can all give advices, I learned the most from Ortega Graphics, but advice still doesn't mean it will be executed right and if someone don't know how to execute it right, are you offering assistance to do it for them for free?
By the way your example at the end doesn't have anything to do with this, but at least you made me laugh.
Anyway it was just a tought don't get mad at me for it ;)



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-03-14

@Ajleroux, I agree with this. It will be very useful, particularly in those multi-logo cases. Thank you very much.

@Eclipse42, as you know, the initial friendly email sent to the thief offers them the chance to acquire the legal rights to the logo. The template that LogoGround uses says: "Your use of the logo listed below infringes on the rights of the copyright holder. While we are delighted that you would like to use this logo on your web site, we do require that you either purchase the rights to the original logo through the LogoGround link below or that you delete it from your web site. Whichever you choose, we would appreciate your response within the next two business days in order to avoid further action. [link to the original logo on LogoGround and link to the copied logo]"
This is indicated on the opening post of this topic: https://www.logoground.com/discuss.php?topic=54
Then, if after two business days there is no response, as indicated, further action is taken (DMCA notice, for example).
Therefore, this is already a very streamlined process (particularly if a template letter and some automation is used). In most cases, there is no need for multiple follow-ups or back and forth. I doubt that any extra (paid) services are required in this respect.

@Eclipse42, also, thank you for your kind words; I am very happy that you learned from me.


Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-03-14

I agree for the most part. Process is fairly easy when done few times to get better knowledge and practice. I still think that there are people out there unwilling to go through this process but still sell logos without bothering about selling logo that is illegaly used somewhere else. LG is getting bigger and bigger by the day and those kind of designers are not far from joining LG or already being o
LG. Described situation can give a bad image about LG not just designer and if LG spot a logo like that they can act on it and in case there is a sale I think it would be fair to give bit more percentage to LG other then original percentage from sale. I will repeat myself again, it was just a thought, mostly because I got tired and thought I wish someone else could do all this and then I kept sending e-mails...

Of course, thanks for your imput as always. Beside ajleroux, I think you gave the most to LG and designers in advices section, to call it that way. You two are literally giving back to community. Keep it going.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-03-14

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

misma, as far as I know most sites allow a copyright representative to act on behalf of the copyright holder. For ones that don't, LogoGround won't be able to assist designers.

eclipse42, many thanks for your kind words and the suggestion! I like it, good idea. It might be tricky to implement, but we will keep it in mind for the future. For now we just think it will be helpful if LogoGround has the authority to go after copycats. Finding the time to do so is another matter :)

Gregory M, objection noted, but your wallet analogy doesn't work. There the witness is the only one with the solution and he holds the victim ransom. With copyright enforcement, designers are able to do it themselves and free to do so. If they choose to save time by handing the task to someone else, voluntarily paying for that service does not present an ethical problem, not that I can see. But I respect your opinion and if you see a problem that I'm missing, please let me know.

Ortega Graphics, agreed, it's a fairly straightforward process. We have partially automated it for our own copyright notices. If anyone else is considering automating it for themselves, keep in mind that a DMCA notice initiates a legal process, so overdoing the automation is probably a really bad idea. There should still be a responsible human evaluating each one and deciding how to proceed.



DESIGNER
Frankie Soo
2019-03-14

I fully support LogoGround to act on behalf of the designers in copyright claims/disputes, the logo thief issue was a pain in the neck :(



DESIGNER
rikirah
2019-03-14

I support Lg on this matter.🤛



DESIGNER
Imenk
2019-03-14

nice idea!



DESIGNER
fbastiardesign
2019-03-14

it's good for all designer in Logoground. Because I think not all designers have time to chase thieves.

And please, everything related to the policy in the logoground you can inform it via email. Because this is an important thing for all members to know here.

(:



DESIGNER
Furqontino
2019-03-14

great idea...
thank you very much @ajleroux & @LogoGround



DESIGNER
korzuen
2019-03-14

Fully support the idea



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-03-15

Thanks everyone. Update applied (4.21 in the user agreement).
https://www.logoground.com/user-agreement.php

Just to clarify:
This change does not mean that you should no longer chase after copycats that you find. For the most part, LogoGround staff will not have the time to do it for you. The idea with this change is just to give LogoGround the authority to do so in some cases, for example where one person steals a bunch of logos from different designers.

fbastiardesign, I agree, with important changes we want to inform designers. For example, we posted a notification for all designers when we updated the commission model earlier this year. Less important changes like this one will usually be announced on the forum and major changes will come with a notification. We don't like sending mass emails though - too many issues with delivery, profiles, spam lists etc.



DESIGNER
aefirit
2019-03-23

Amazing news! :D Thank you @ajleroux and @LogoGround :)

Excuse me, I've been absent for several days, but there is a small electrical chaos in my country in addition to the crisis that we already had, I'm reading the new posts in the forum to keep me updated.

I agree with @eclipse42 :) I think it would be nice to have a service that we can request to manage the problems of copies of our logos. So for example, if we find a customer illegally using our logo, we could request that service to logoground, so that they can process it for us and help the client to make the purchase, this in exchange for a percentage of our logo. I believe that people give more value to a legal notification when it comes from a registered company such as LogoGround. The pages that contain several forgeries of our logos, will also give greater value to this, so I am happy for this new change in LogoGround.



DESIGNER
metrolinevision
2019-03-24

100% Agree with it!:)



DESIGNER
mc design
2019-03-24

Please do that!
I cannot deal with all these copycats. Shuterstock (for example) doesn't respond to my copyright infringement claims.

This is long time due, if you ask me...
Thank you!



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-03-24

@mc design Shutterstock never replies, but they do remove images. Have you looked at it ? At least for me it is like that, they remove them but never give response to say they removed anything.



DESIGNER
MRM1
2019-03-24

I agréé too :); more protect logos give more sales



DESIGNER
FuturaSan
2019-03-25

@eclipse42
Shutterstock they seem to understand perfectly well that they have a very large percentage of copied work on the resource. They control it very badly.
They are ashamed, so they are silent)))



DESIGNER
Brandmaistro
2019-03-25

@FuturaSan

That was exactly what I thought...
In The Netherlands we say 'geen slapende honden wakker maken'
Which means: 'do not wake sleeping dogs' ;-)

No worries. We will do... :-P



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-03-25

@FuturaSan yes I agree, but they always removed the content I reported. They did not respond but they did remove it. I guess that is their response and so far it is good, I don't need more e-mails, I need action taken.



DESIGNER
datenshi blue
2019-03-29

yes, it's good that they delete the reported images but in case those images have sales before you reported them what happens?



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-03-30

datenshi blue, if a logo has been sold on a stock site, the buyer of the stock image can't legally use it. Only the person who holds the copyright can legally sell it and only the buyer buying from the copyright holder can legally use it. It is the stock site's problem if they sold it. Ideally they should permanently ban the designer and refund the buyer.



DESIGNER


DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-04-17

copyright@designhill.com
Report design there.
Here is topic on dmca example:
https://www.logoground.com/dmca-take-down-example.php

One more advice, keep an eye for that business name, for example on FB or Instagram, so that you can report there too. When facebook removes something there is no better proof that design is stolen for the person using it.



DESIGNER
mk4gfx
2019-04-17

I found my logo copied on shutterstock multiple times. when sending the DMCA notice can i send only one with the multiple links or should i report each one separately? Thanx



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-04-17

If it is same logo copied multiple times by same user or more than one, just put them in one e-mail. "I am the copyright owner of the design being infringed at" and then just paste all the links you find one under the other.
If one user stole multiple of your logos, which is more than likely, then report each one separately because they are different logos.



DESIGNER
mk4gfx
2019-04-17

@eclipse, Thank you for answering!



DESIGNER
KatInABox
2019-04-19

Oh my god, thank you so much! Fully support staff on this one.



DESIGNER
sbelogd
2019-04-19

Thanks a lot!
I contacted them, I hope for best!
@eclipse, Hvala Harun puno!!



DESIGNER
hellocrunk
2019-04-20

awesome ... love it !!!



DESIGNER
sbelogd
2019-04-29

Hello!
I got response fron DesignHill:

"Hello,
Greetings from Designhill,
Our Scrutiny team has authenticated the design and we request you to share the copyright details and proof which authenticates you with ownership of the original design.
Looking forward to hear back from you.
Warm Regards,
Lucy M.
Customer Advocate - Designhill"

Any advice on what to answer?
Thanks a lot, Emina



DESIGNER
ava19nauval
2019-04-29

@sbelogd, why don't you send them a link where your post is uploaded on LG and show them the date you post by. Just make sure the copycat upload your logo right after you post it in here.

Hope everyone else would add my words :) ...



DESIGNER
eclipse42
2019-04-29

Just use this form, I use this form all the time and never had an issue with it.

Hello.

I am the copyright owner of the design being infringed at:

(url of stolen logo)

The original work may be viewed at:

(Original logo from LG - url)

This letter is official notification under the provisions of Section 512(c)
of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”) to effect removal of the reported infringement(s). I request that you promptly remove the infringing content and prevent the infringer from posting the infringing content to your servers in future.

I have a good faith belief that the use of this material in such a fashion
is not authorized by me, the copyright holder, or by applicable law.
Under penalty of perjury I certify that the information provided here is accurate and that I am the copyright holder.

Please contact me to indicate the actions you have taken to resolve this
matter.

Sincerely

/s/ full name

full name again

e-mail

If that doesn't work and they want additional info, you can describe the logo, write the date of creation, write them your designer name on LG, point them to your profile on LG (link of profile) and for FB and Instagram I always attach image from LG for reference, point them to under the logo where it states that you own copyrights of the logo.



DESIGNER
sculptor
2019-04-29

I don't understand how DesignHill operates. I can't find any date stamp on entries. There is only brief update date. Can you see the dates here?:
https://www.designhill.com/logo-and-business-card-design/contest/automotive-logo-and-business-card-design-required-151072/design-brief



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-04-29

For users that need advice about DMCA take down notices. LogoGround has a specific page for this with information, tips and an example letter.

https://www.logoground.com/dmca-take-down-example.php

Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
ava19nauval
2019-04-29

@eclipse42 and @Ortega Graphics

Really helpful, thank you for great information :)



DESIGNER
immoodesign
2019-04-29

Thats definitely a great idea.

One more thing which I would like share which I experienced here is that I noticed some old designers and some new designers submitting similar logos/ideas which I've seen before in other websites/platforms which have been shut down, such as stocklogos. I myself reported 2 to 3 times here at LG by showing my own logos/concepts been copied and submitted in LG. Please do something to stop OR resolve these kind of issues as well. It would be more good to think about inside than outside because I feel some of the designers are taking benefits from Stocklogos since its been shutdown like copying other's ideas and submitting here as their own. Thanks!



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-04-29

@Immoodesign, Don't worry, when you report a copycat that copied your design from elsewhere (and it is clear that is a blatant copy), that user is immediately banned from LogoGround.

https://www.logoground.com/onestrike.php

Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
immoodesign
2019-04-29

Thanks for the link Og.



DESIGNER
sbelogd
2019-04-30

Just a little quick question on "Where to send your DMCA take down notice"?
Should I send this notice as a reply email to DesignHill, or?
The part "whoIsHostingthis.com" confuses me :) Where should I send my email to?
P.S. I provided links to my original design in the first mail, but they are obviously ignoring it.
Best Regards, Emina



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-05-01

Sbelogd,

Many companies will ignore a DMCA take down notice if it is incomplete or if it is sent to the wrong email address. If the company has an email address specifically created to deal with copyright issues, then that is the email address to be used.

In the case of Designhill, they have a page explaining their copyright guidelines and this page includes the specific email address to be used: https://www.designhill.com/copyright

Assuming that you sent your DMCA take down notice to the proper email address, double check that your message follows the aforementioned example letter as close as possible (not necessarily word for word, but in terms of structure).

For companies that have specific and exact requirements listed on their DMCA page, you should follow those requirements to the letter, otherwise they might chose to ignore your DMCA take down notice.

Contacting a hosting company is only the last resort. In those cases, most hosting companies have a DMCA page and/or a specific email address (and/or specific contact form).

Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
sbelogd
2019-05-03

Hello!
The email "copyright@designhill.com" is not working, I tried to contact them at on this email at first place. I sent DMCA notice by the provided "template" here, and also added links to my Logo Ground account, Pinterest account (all under same username), and even attached screenshoot of me loged in to their website DesignHill as a designer (where is listed my balance and other profile details only user can see), so they have no doubt.

After all, they are sending me this reply:

"Hello Designer,

Greetings from Designhill,

We would like to inform you that our team contacted the winning designer of the contest regarding the authenticity of the logo design.

However, we also request you to kindly share the Copyright Licence number with us so that we can validate the design at our end and necessary action can be taken against the designer.

In case of any query please feel free to contact us. "

Is there any logical answer to this email, or should I wish them a happy weekend? :)

Regards, Emina :)




DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-05-03

Sbelogd,

It is not necessary to apply for copyright registration to a government copyright office. Copyright comes into existence as soon as the work is fixed in any medium of expression (e.g., uploading the work to a public website).

This is clearly stipulated on the Berne Convention, which is an international agreement governing copyright. It is noteworthy to mention that 90% of the countries of the world are Berne Convention signatories.

For more information:
https://wipolex.wipo.int/en/text/283698
https://copyrighthouse.co.uk/copyright/countries-berne-convention.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention

Therefore, the date stamp on the various websites that feature your logo should suffice as proof.

Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
korzuen
2019-05-05

Finally I found a website that is using my logo without my permission. Part of me kinda feel proud knowing my logo worth something and part of me feel pissed off that they did not buy it.

@eclipse42 thanks for the e-mail format, it is very useful

@Sbelogd hope everything is going fine. I had issue with that website too. I reported someone for using a copied logo but no action had been taken by the site.



DESIGNER
Genovius
2019-05-06

Hi, suddenly i had thought about a possible worst scenario where the logo that we show at LG at one time was sold on another platform. Therefore, we must delete the logo that we display here, right? (by doing so, possibly removing any trace and timestamp automatically)
but, what if our logo has been stolen before while its still on display, and how we overcome the possible future issue? because if we delete the logo, there is no trace or time stamp here we can use as evidence due the deleting.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-05-06

Genovius,

In your hypothetical scenario, if the logo was sold on another platform, wouldn't that platform also have a time stamp?

In any case, if you think that you (or your client) might need the LG time stamp in the future, there is a solution: Prior to deleting the logo in LG, you could create an official archive of the page using the Wayback Machine.

As discussed in previous topics, there are many ways to archive individual pages on the Wayback Machine. This page explains some of the methods:
https://blog.archive.org/2017/01/25/see-something-save-something/

Hope this helps,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
Genovius
2019-05-06

That would definitely helps, thanks @ortega graphics



DESIGNER
sculptor
2019-05-06

I propose we never remove any logo from our LG portfolios. If we sell it somewhere else we can simply pause it here. This way logo will have a "birth certificate" as long as LG exists.



DESIGNER
Genovius
2019-05-06

thats a really nice and simple solution by utilizing the pause feature! thanks @sculptor



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-05-06

Sculpture,

That seems like a good idea. But there is a bit of an issue: When you pause an individual logo, the preview image is replaced with this one:
https://www.logoground.com/img2019/pausedlogo.jpg

So, as of now, a paused logo can not be used as proof for a copyright dispute.

In this hypothetical scenario, to be able to use that specific LogoGround logo page as proof, the designer would have to unpause the logo; which would defeat the purpose (as the logo is already sold elsewhere in this scenario) and which will open the dangerous possibility of another client buying it.

However, assuming the other place (where the logo was sold in this scenario) doesn't have a time stamp, and if the client absolutely needs help to fight a thief (and to protect his/her recently purchased logo), the unpausing could be done temporarily (and maybe the price could be set to the maximum of $3000 to try to avoid a second buyer). In this hypothetical scenario, the designer should contact the LG admins to explain the situation because having a logo for sale in LG which was already sold elsewhere is definitely not the best situation.

Just some thoughts,

Ortega Graphics



DESIGNER
sculptor
2019-05-06

I see much simpler solution. Each logo has a title. We can change it to Sold Logo. Description can follow explaining that logo was sold.

LG is very user friendly place. Ability to pause logo and sell it somewhere else without any hassle is a classy solution. LG could make it harder trying to keep logo and possible income. I really appreciate it.



DESIGNER
Ortega Graphics
2019-05-06

@Genovius, this hypothetical scenario is very interesting and thought provoking. Thank you.

@Sculptor, yes, of course, that's a good idea, but just changing the text won't prevent a (distracted) second client for purchasing the logo (even at a higher price), because the "Buy This Logo" button will still be enabled (and the structured data will still display it as "in stock" within Google Images). Of course, that second sale would have to be cancelled.

@Ajleroux, would it be possible to have a "Mark as Sold" option for logos? The logistics of this would have be discussed, but in principle, it would be nice for designers that sold a logo elsewhere to be able to mark it as sold in LG; this way, they won't lose the LG likes/views for that logo, as well as the associated LG ranking. So, the logo would more or less look like a normal sold logo (maybe with a specific text explaining it was sold elsewhere?), but the most important thing is that the image and date stamp will be visible without the possibility of a second sale (and the structured data would also be updated as "sold").

Just some thoughts,

Ortega Graphics



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-05-06

The ability for designers to mark a logo as sold is a good idea. Added to the to-do list. We will probably have to keep track of which logos sold on LG and which ones sold elsewhere, but that shouldn't be hard to do.

sbelogd, sorry to hear about the trouble you're having with Designhill. Ortega Graphics is 100% correct, copyright exists automatically and is not only valid if formally registered. Unfortunately it is sometimes necessary to point this out when reporting an infringement. When I'm asked for a "copyright license number" I respond with a link to the Berne Convention article on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention

It literally says that it is "prohibited to require formal registration".

Ask the site to explain why they require formal copyright registration even though this action is prohibited by the Berne Convention.



ADMIN
ajleroux
2019-05-06

Instead of linking to Wikipedia, you can also link to the full text:
https://global.oup.com/booksites/content/9780198259466/15550001
Article 5(2) specifically.



DESIGNER
designerdahlia
2019-06-02

Waiting positively for the ability for designers to mark a logo as sold :)


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